John - Thank you for the second referee report, we have made all the changes you have requested. In order: We have discussed our photometric membership criteria specifically in Rakos, Schombert and Kreidl (1991) and Fiala, Rakos and Stockton (1986); however, for the sake of speeding the publication of this paper we have repeated the discussion and diagrams in this paper (in violation of the ApJ policy on only publishing original material). We have placed the tracks of redshift versus color index on the same style figures as the color data for the clusters, so the reader can compare. We can also clarified that we do not predict redshift, only cluster membership. Beyond a few 10,000 km/sec the solutions are non-unique, however we are only interested in excluding foreground and background objects). We have also tested our method against known redshift data in the clusters, as you suggested. As we had shown in previous papers, we recovered all the cluster members (which had sufficient photometric accuracy) and excluded all the non-cluster members. All this is included in a new section called cluster membership. The CCD size for A115 only covered the southern component of the binary cluster. We have noted this in the text and made note of the dynamical state of the cluster in the conclusions. We have corrected the typo in the tables, and added uncertainty values (N**1/2) to the total percentages as requested. These error bars were already shown in Figure 9. Jim Received: from cfa.harvard.edu (cfa.harvard.edu [131.142.10.1]) by abyss.uoregon.edu (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA12203 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 21:02:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from fang.harvard.edu (fang [131.142.24.63]) by cfa.harvard.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2/cfunix M-S 0.1) with ESMTP id AAA11621; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 00:02:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost by fang.harvard.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2/cfunix S 0.5) with ESMTP id AAA21295; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 00:02:42 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 00:02:42 -0500 (EST) From: john huchra To: Jim Schombert cc: huchra@cfa.harvard.edu Subject: Re: MS #50048 In-Reply-To: <200003290305.TAA10486@abyss.uoregon.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 735 Status: RO I'll have a look as soon as I get it to download. Note that the Fiala paper was not referenced in the earlier versions of the manuscript. What I was looking for, and did not see in any of the referenced papers (could have been my fault) was a plot of colors for a cluster set with objects of known --- but non cluster z -- in the field marked. That is to say, an analysis based on known redshifts in your cluster fields showing that non-members can be so identified based on color alone. Perhaps a delta-color versus delta-z plot? I don't know what the best way of showing this might be. John Huchra Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics 60 Garden St MS20 Cambridge, MA 02138-1516 Ph: 617-495-7375 Fax: 617-495-7467 From js Tue Mar 28 22:14:16 2000 Received: (from js@localhost) by abyss.uoregon.edu (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) id WAA13267; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 22:14:06 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 22:14:06 -0800 (PST) From: Jim Schombert Message-Id: <200003290614.WAA13267@abyss.uoregon.edu> To: huchra@cfa.harvard.edu Subject: Re: MS #50048 Content-Length: 870 Status: RO yes, the delta-color vs delta-z is done with simlulated colors (convolving a redshifted spectrum with our filters) - since we do not have our own scopes, we havn't used our few nights imaging galaxies outside the redshift range - we have confidence in the simulations, and from the selection process tested against local clusters with many known redshifts - the current plot uses Kennicutt atlas data for an elliptical and a spiral - the results match the model numbers - its pretty straight forward calculations since this is the 8th paper in this series, the reference trail is long - and it looks like we are padding the reference list with our own papers - so we cite the most recent ones - an alternative is to post the calibration information on our narrow band website - but the journals havn't agreed on how to reference electron information on this type J From huchra@fang.harvard.edu Tue Mar 28 22:40:43 2000 Received: from cfa.harvard.edu (cfa.harvard.edu [131.142.10.1]) by abyss.uoregon.edu (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA13726 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 22:40:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from fang.harvard.edu (fang [131.142.24.63]) by cfa.harvard.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2/cfunix M-S 0.1) with ESMTP id BAA12497 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 01:41:21 -0500 (EST) Received: (from huchra@localhost) by fang.harvard.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2/cfunix S 0.5) id BAA21356 for js@abyss.uoregon.edu; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 01:41:21 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 01:41:21 -0500 (EST) From: John Huchra Message-Id: <200003290641.BAA21356@fang.harvard.edu> To: js@abyss.uoregon.edu Subject: Re: MS #50048 Content-Length: 660 Status: RO Hi Jim, I think you're still missing the point. These clusters have foregroun and backgroun galaxies in the field with redshifts that show that they're foreground or background. Where do the interlopers lie in your color color plots? The known interlopers? Statistically, what fraction of galaxies with known redshifts outside the clsuter range fall inside the color-color range? and vice versa, what fraction of the galaxies with redshfitts that place them in the cluster fall outside the color-color range for galaxesi in the cluster? I suggested a delta-color versus delta-z plot because you can then combine all the data for all the clusters. J From js Wed Mar 29 08:06:06 2000 Received: (from js@localhost) by abyss.uoregon.edu (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) id IAA21879; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 08:06:05 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 08:06:05 -0800 (PST) From: Jim Schombert Message-Id: <200003291606.IAA21879@abyss.uoregon.edu> To: huchra@cfa.harvard.edu Subject: Re: MS #50048 Content-Length: 311 Status: RO John - there are 14 gals in the A115 field with known redshifts - 12 are cluster members and have colors that agree with that - 2 are foreground and have colors that indicate that - there are insufficient number of galaxies to draw a delta-color delta-z plot (all the cluster gals group at the mean color) J From huchra@fang.harvard.edu Wed Mar 29 13:11:50 2000 Received: from cfa.harvard.edu (cfa.harvard.edu [131.142.10.1]) by abyss.uoregon.edu (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA26915 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 13:11:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from fang.harvard.edu (fang [131.142.24.63]) by cfa.harvard.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2/cfunix M-S 0.1) with ESMTP id QAA06120 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 16:12:29 -0500 (EST) Received: (from huchra@localhost) by fang.harvard.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2/cfunix S 0.5) id QAA22983 for js@abyss.uoregon.edu; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 16:12:29 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 16:12:29 -0500 (EST) From: John Huchra Message-Id: <200003292112.QAA22983@fang.harvard.edu> To: js@abyss.uoregon.edu Subject: Re: MS #50048 Content-Length: 534 Status: RO Ok. I surrender. But you should do it sometime with the assembly of all the clusters you have. the delta-delta plot is independent of redshift so you can stack clusters (that is, plot Y-axis observed color minus closest expected color at the cluster redshift --- the residual from the color-color line X-axis galaxy redshift minus cluster redshift. probably in signed not absolute units of z ) You have at least two more rich clusters with z's to try this with, and it would convince the doubting Thomases. John From js Wed Mar 29 14:11:40 2000 Received: (from js@localhost) by abyss.uoregon.edu (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) id OAA27795; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 14:11:40 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 14:11:40 -0800 (PST) From: Jim Schombert Message-Id: <200003292211.OAA27795@abyss.uoregon.edu> To: huchra@cfa.harvard.edu Subject: Re: MS #50048 In-Reply-To: Mail from 'John Huchra ' dated: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 16:12:29 -0500 (EST) Content-Length: 628 Status: RO we have Hubble money to go through the archive and correlate our colors with morphology - assumingly we will also be able to determine background and foreground, somewhat - we also hope to get telescope time to do a full spectro analysis of the dwarf starburst population - but this is unlikely since the TAC's see UOregon next to my name there are dozens and dozens of photometric redshift papers in the literature - my experience is that the doubting Thomases will never be convinced - just like some referees believe that all LSB dwarfs are confusion with nearby spirals - but that will be the subject of my next email J